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 The use of limiter in CDsoundmaster chains..
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prosodio
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3 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2009 :  04:08:03  Show Profile Send prosodio a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Michael, Im reading about the settings of the sonnox limiter (wich is the one I use) in your Retro chains when bussing instruments. I have a doubt here, maybe too basic: when you say 1-2 db of reduction what do you mean? Gain reduction o just put +1 db in the input and set the output in 0db? For getting 1-2 db of gain reduction in a drum buss I have to rise the input level to 7 db or so, I think its too much. Please, could you elaborate here???

Thanks in advance!!!!

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clubvst
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USA
169 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2009 :  23:46:15  Show Profile  Visit clubvst's Homepage Send clubvst a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Sonnox is a little more advanced for level matching than some of the other limiters, but basically the same concept applies.
First, you want your levels in Nebula to be set based upon the sound of the program without overloading the Neb plug-in gain level. Neb. will let you know if it is overloading, so reduce this to make sure no peaks go over in Neb.

Using the Sonnox Lim as part of an effect of a Neb program, think of it as providing the leveling characteristic of overloading the input of the device. This device can be a simulated effect chain with multiple items in the chain, a preamp, a tape machine, etc. Anything that gets more harmonic distortion as the input is driven harder, where it also begins to compress the signal at the same slope. For this, a clean limiter can help create the compressing or leveling aspect of the sound. Once Nebula is providing the harmonic/dynamic/frequency aspect of this reaction, place Sonnox Limiter after Nebula in serial.

The Sonnox can be set with auto-comp and auto-gain turned off. As long as your actual file is well below digital zero and does not have excess inter-sampling overloads, it should work to increase the input level of the limiter until it shows a small amount of gain or peak reduction. Just a small amount of reduction is all that it takes to sound more like the natural affect that happens with the real preamp. This can be increased if the harmonic distortion character is being increased, and can even be done with sandwiched copies of Neb/Limiter/Neb/Limiter to incrase the drive and leveling aspects.

Depending on how you set up your mixes, you can reduce the Sonnox output for the level you began with on the recorded track, you can reduce the track gain from the DAW, or compensate in whatever manner with the effect output to get the monitored levels that are needed.

Let me know if this answers your question. I hope it helps!

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prosodio
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3 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2009 :  07:54:54  Show Profile Send prosodio a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you very much!!! Now I understand it, I though if I turn the output down I could damage the sound, so when I get the peak reduction between 1-2db with the input then I turn the output to compensate the increase of volume.

Thanks again.
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Entrainer
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11 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2009 :  01:15:42  Show Profile Send Entrainer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is going to be a new experiment of mine... a past-time. Michael has turned me onto some new ideas.

I'm thinking logically that there must be some sort of natural soft knee associated with this form of natural compression. If 0 is full-tilt distortion, 30:1 ratio limiting, then perhaps -8 would be 1:1. It'd be instantaneous attack, so a look ahead would be best. Release is program dependent, so auto release.

These are assumptions from my experience with hardware, not actually trying to replicate this with a plug-in. The Waves L-316 looks to be a good contender. It's much better than the L2, L3 IMHO.

I know Michael and Giancarlo like Elephant.
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clubvst
Forum Admin



USA
169 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2009 :  16:55:14  Show Profile  Visit clubvst's Homepage Send clubvst a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, Elephant sounds good to me although it still is obvious to me when it is in one mode or another. I've found that every software limiter that I like has a point where it's algo works best and then sounds better with a second instance; for example instead of doing 4dB limiting, two instances doing 2dB both in the same mode. The Waves L2 I like the actual sound it produces in the same way I like the sound of certain compressors.

But, in general, most of these brickwall limiters are clean enough to bridge the gap in making this sound very close to what is happening. Some might see it as a weakness in the program type to require multiple instances of different plug-ins to reproduce a sound correctly. But, no one has made a complete flow product that handle these all accurately. I know Waves has attempted such with the "V" series and "API" series, in my opinion with success in API, although still about 85% accuracy. I think Nebula's version of loading the harmonics from a preamp program and adding the same amount of brickwall as the amount of leveling compression that occurs from driving the same device is 98% accurate. I've actually come close to folding over audio samples to eliminate each other when placed at negative polarity. I believe the only thing keeping them for eliminating completely is the slight difference in rate and slope of the real compressing, which is not totally the same from unit to unit, let alone hardware and software.
But, the benefit of being able to use only the distortion characteristics without the compressing is a huge breakthrough I think.
There are also algorithms that work for creating extremely complex gain staging to add distorted peaks to an already accurate harmonic distortion setting from Neb. Some you can line up with multiple Neb's that are accurate. More distorted ones work great with some of the freebie plug-ins out there being added to only the transients. Waveshapers and items like saturator and the like can add analog oomph to the transients while neb handles the full signal to the harmonic degree just beneath this level.

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Entrainer
Starting Member



11 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2009 :  22:43:52  Show Profile Send Entrainer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
>But, the benefit of being able to use only the distortion characteristics without the compressing is a huge breakthrough I think.

True. I know ME's like to sometimes chain compressors running 1:1 ratios, 1.5:1, just for the color.
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